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| History Spoiler? | |
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| Topic Started: September 12, 2015, 10:09 pm (654 Views) | |
| DeathkaiserG | September 12, 2015, 10:09 pm Post #1 |
Faraway Black Jewel
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I was reading "Kingdom" manga, a history manga bout Shi huang di's story and in the comments someone mentioned an event (a bit major), now the whole comment section is on war about if its an actual spoiler or not... They say its not a spoiler because its already history... saying "you cant spoil history" but others says it is a spoiler because not all of us has detailed chinese history lessons Im in the "its a spoiler" side cause like i said just now... not all of us has that kind of lessons and only the major ones are taught Thoughts? |
 "It is way easier to sneak past a dead person." -- Killian (Killian Experience) | |
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| haruhi suzumiya | September 12, 2015, 10:27 pm Post #2 |
हेप्पी!
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Im not that educated yet, but i will give my very good opinion. The only way to spoil the history is if people want you surprized. It is kinda like a surprize party. They want you to be scared (and in my views: terrified.) but then start to realize it in the end. So i am on your side. Because history terrifies me. |
#lovenaho! adore me. Cure me. Bruise me. Kill me. 
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| Morishige Sakutaro - kun | September 12, 2015, 10:38 pm Post #3 |
Mayu's Shige-nii.
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Personally, I can't see how it's a spoiler. A spoiler is purely a dramatic term within various media, and history is far more than drama, it's everything that constructs society, and even civilization as a whole. I'll admit, I know next to nothing about Chinese history, but to place drama above knowledge of history, even within a manga and about a not-well-known event, to me at least is a completely alien opinion. Then again, I pretty much always favour the intellectual elite above most people. Morishige. |
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Mayu and Morishige - Forever apart Sachiko's worst torture | |
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| Skybird | September 12, 2015, 10:53 pm Post #4 |
Grindblues
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Well, for me, I think it's a spoiler. Spoilers are usually seen as an event that carries enough weight in a story that can they become a... "shocker" or "eye-opener" kind of info to those who view it. Even putting history (haha, there's even "story" in history) into that mix, and in this case where the viewers may not even be aware of the historical events that took place until then, it should technically be a spoiler in relation to it being in a manga. If you know the history, then I guess it's good. It won't be a spoiler to you. But to those who don't and will just know that through the manga, I see it as a spoiler still. I don't see why the spoiler being something historical can't be an actual spoiler. You don't know the event (even if it's already history) and you're told of it before you can actually get to that part. EDIT: Just went with a dictionary definition: information about the plot of a motion picture or TV program that can spoil a viewer's sense of surprise or suspense. In the case of a manga, it seems to fit cause it's something that aims to tell a story, albeit historical. In the end, an event in the manga's story is spoiled to you. History or not, you got spoiled of an event in the manga before you actually finish the previous parts leading to the spoiled portion. Though, I haven't read much historical kinds of manga and there should be cases where they don't completely follow history and make changes here and there, minor or major. Edited by Skybird, September 13, 2015, 3:29 am.
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| Zaion | September 13, 2015, 3:16 am Post #5 |
FanFiction writer/Translator/Character Bio writer
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Ugh... I hate people who hate spoilers. As someone who enjoys stuff on multiple levels i.e. on the pacing, creative technique, etc. as well as the actual plot. I really don't mind if something is spoiled since you can see a writer gearing up to something pretty well + you can see the efforts they take to make something shocking. If you're going to lose interest in something from learning about the plot a little bit in advance, you never really liked it that much in my books. A good story is a good story. If the only reason you enjoy it is shock value, well... I just have to say that we'll probably never really see eye to eye. Still, I'd say that's still a technical spoiler. Going by the, "it's history = it can't be spoiled" is like saying "it's on the internet = it can't be spoiled". Just because I can read about something elsewhere doesn't make the information itself not a spoiler. If that's true, I could spoil the entirety of Blood Drive and claim it not to be a spoiler because people have twitch streams and blog posts about it. It's more the fact that you showed it to someone that makes it a spoiler than what you showed, tbh. EDIT: I don't go for the "I paid for it, therefore I must have my full allotment of enjoyment." argument. If a truck ran into you because you were playing a game or reading a book, would you yell at the truck for running into you and ruining your enjoyment? There's just so much more you could do besides complaining about how your fun was ruined, like finding something else fun to do or finding another way to enjoy said material. Edited by Zaion, September 13, 2015, 3:19 am.
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Check out my fanfic Corpse Party: Blood Drive Aftermath. I can also translate from Japanese to English. Open to requests. | |
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| Ajogamer | September 13, 2015, 10:34 am Post #6 |
 
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I'm not very familiar with the manga you mentioned, so I can't say for sure if it is or not, but I think determining it would be pretty simple for anyone who read it. If the information spoils some aspect of the plot, then it's a spoiler. It may have a strong basis in history, though as you said, it may not be history many of the readers are familiar with. While history is something people should be familiar with in general, there's also a whole lot of history. All of it is important in its own way, though its relevance and general familiarity to individuals depends on a lot of factors, and certain aspects of history will be more widely taught than others. While I wouldn't like people saying "I don't want to be familiar with history in general", in this case, I'd imagine lot of the audience (at least, among English speakers) wouldn't have been curious about or even known about this particular aspect of history if not for the story, so I don't feel there's anything wrong with them not wanting to dig further until they've experienced the story. Now, how significant a spoiler it is and whether or not people should care about that aspect being spoiled is an entirely different story, and is both much more complicated and very down to preference. On one hand, there is the aspect about it being based on historical fact, so it definitely wouldn't be seen as a spoiler by anyone already familiar with that history. I also feel like it depends a lot on how closely the manga sticks to history on that event; I know there's some historical fiction that is an almost identical telling of the main plot with only smaller variations (like characterization and the general style), and others that are only loosely based on history, and like throwing a bunch of twists and changes to the point even someone familiar with the original events is likely to be surprised (sometimes even adding some fantasy or sci-fi elements). In general though, what does and doesn't count as a spoiler for someone is a rather subjective subject. Some may only care about more significant stuff (like character deaths and major plot twists), while others may want to be as in the dark as they can about the plot and not even know little things, since they really enjoy things like trying to piece the plot together by themselves and/or being surprised (in the case of a video game, this may even be gameplay mechanics, since they may like the discovery or struggle that can occur when more unsure of things). Personally, I can really get both sides. Like Zaion, I really don't like it when people act like a couple spoilers can ruin an entire story, since I've always felt like seeing something in play out is much different than merely hearing a summary of events (there are so many aspects that go into telling and delivering a story; it'd be really hard to spoil all those aspects), though at the same time, I can definitely get wanting to avoid spoilers and be more in the dark about things, since I'm also one who really enjoys the surprise, suspense and uncertainty that can come with that. Personally, I don't think a story could ever be totally ruined for me with spoilers, though there are definitely certain factors of enjoyment that can sometimes be significantly lessened or taken away from having too much spoiled, especially if it's a story more reliant on twists, or something like a mystery where a lot of the fun can be following the character's train of thought as they piece things together and even doing your own analysis of events (I'm guessing that may not apply much with this particular manga, though). In any case, I feel like people should try to avoid spoiling things for others when they can out of general respect (even if they may think something being considered a spoiler is silly in their eyes), though at the same time, while there can be the occasional jerks who go out of their way to spoil things for others, a lot of not being spoiled is also up to the person themselves, since people often accidentally let things slip out, or simply have a different idea of what counts for a spoiler. I learned pretty well from accidentally spoiling myself a couple times that if I really wanna be sure I don't get spoilers about a certain story, I should hold off on reading general story discussions until after I've experienced the story (at this point, I'll risk it more for stories where spoilers would matter less to me, and risk it less for stories I'd care more about being spoiled on). Edited by Ajogamer, September 13, 2015, 10:36 am.
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| DeathkaiserG | September 13, 2015, 11:04 am Post #7 |
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Faraway Black Jewel
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Well, i guess most of us agree that it is a spoiler... Well, i dont reaally like spoilers at all... but not in the sense of it would entirely ruin the whole thing... it would just make a hole in my little heart. For example reading a detective story... then bam! Someone spoiled the killer... while the story overall is great, the fact that i have been spoiled makes me feel a bit hollow... (unless the ending is so great that it overwrote the feeling of emptiness) Another example, me encountering a death event spoiler.... hell, i would never be able to concentrate at the whole story itself but i would automatically focus on the character that will die... even if i dont want too... (im not that smart of a person) In summary, for me spoiler doesnt ruin the story but just that moment.. |
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"It is way easier to sneak past a dead person." -- Killian (Killian Experience) | |
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| Kokka-Cola | March 16, 2016, 5:35 pm Post #8 |
Bones
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I think that's like saying "Hitler lost the war" is a spoiler. It doesn't matter how big or small the event was; if it really happened, it's fair game. Spoilers are for fiction, not fact. |
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| DeathkaiserG | March 21, 2016, 12:00 pm Post #9 |
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Faraway Black Jewel
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I don't like that example at all... That's like one of the most well known fact ever... That's the most irritating reply ever. That reminds me, I haven't said my stand bout this (just a line of thought only) I don't really like "history is not a spoiler" Why? That's like watching an old anime/game and mentioning a death scene in that anime/game is not a spoiler...and it feels stupid since people are expected to know it when the event in question is obscure as a high school question hiding in an elementary school test paper. It is a fact, but the kid ain't know it yet. |
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"It is way easier to sneak past a dead person." -- Killian (Killian Experience) | |
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| Rohzek | March 21, 2016, 4:45 pm Post #10 |
Leader
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I also feel spoilers are for fiction and fiction only. The only way someone can spoil history for you is if you didn't pay attention in school or are too young to have finished school... In either case you probably aren't interested in it to begin with. That is also nothing like mentioning a death in a game, anime, or movie as it actually happened and is taught or at least should be mentioned in schools as a standard curriculum of World History, and wasn't a story made up solely to entertain an audience. It's also a matter of perspective. I can tell you that Hamilcar Barca, Mercenary for Carthage managed to encircle a greater army (of Rome) with his lesser army at the battle of Cannae ... And you don't care about that. It means nothing. But if a work of fiction like an anime you were following suddenly had that in it's plot and I said "It's totally from that anime you're following" suddenly you're upset because you feel it spoiled some plot of fiction you were following ... Even though you should know it already, as you should have had some sort of knowledge of the Punic wars from High School... Which you might already know.. I just used this as a slightly more obscure reference than "Hitler lost the war" ┐(´ー｀)┌ ... And there should totally be an anime based off the Punic wars... Blood oaths of revenge... Fighting monsters (war elephants)... Betrayal... Epic battles... The Punic wars are kind of cool and Hamilcar would make a pretty bad ass anime protagonist... Or antagonist... He also lost his war. |
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